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• 00:00> > FROM THE WORLD OF POLITICS TO THE WORLD OF BUSINESS, THIS IS “BALANCE OF POWER.” ♪ LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, D.C. JOE: FROM BLOOMBERG’S WASHINGTON STUDIOS, WELCOME TO “BALANCE OF POWER.” KAILEY: STOCKS EXTENDED BRUTAL SELLOFF DRIVEN BY EXIDE HE OVER TARIFFS AND GROWTH AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS THE ECONOMY FACES A TRANSITION AND GREETS TECH CEOS AT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS NOT JOE: MARK CARNEY WINS THE RACE TO BECOME CANADA’S NEXT PRIME MINISTER AS ONTARIO RAISES PRICES ON ELECTRICITY EXPORTS TO THE U.S. IN RETALIATION AGAINST DONALD TRUMP’S LEVEES. MORE ON ONTARIO’S PREMIER DOUG FORD AND REACTION FROM THE ENERGY SECTOR. KAILEY: REPUBLICANS RELEASE A SPENDING BILL TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT FUNDED THROUGH SEPTEMBER. IT FACES HURDLES IN BOTH CHAMBERS. CONGRESSMAN TIM WALBERG WILL JOIN US LIVE FROM CAPITOL HILL. JOE: THANKS FOR BEING WITH US ON THE LATE EDITION OF “BALANCE OF POWER.” ANOTHER DOWN DAY. MARKETS EXPERIENCING A THREE WEEK STRETCH NOW OF VOLATILITY DUE TO ANXIETY OVER TARIFFS, GOVERNMENT FIRINGS, LEADING TO A SELLOFF. WE SAW THE WORST DAY SINCE 2022. RETURN TO BLOOMBERG’S ROMAINE BOSTICK AT WORLD HEADQUARTERS IN NEW YORK. THIS IS NOT GETTING ANY EASIER. ROMAINE: IT WAS DIFFICULT BEFORE CONCERNS ABOUT A SLOWDOWN IN EARNINGS GROWTH BUT THE CHAOS IN WASHINGTON HAS THROWN A WRENCH IN EVERYTHING. WE HAD ONE OF HER WORST DAYS ON THE S & P 500 SINCE THE FALL, THE WORST ON THE NASDAQ 100 GOING BACK TO 2022. A LOT OF THIS — I WILL BORROW A PHRASE FROM OUR COLLEAGUE ED HARRISON. TRUMP SAID THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD. A LOT OF THE POLICIES HE’S IN PLUMMETING NOW, HE’S OK IF IT DOES A LITTLE ECONOMIC DAMAGE. YOU TALK ABOUT AN ECONOMIC TRANSITION WITH SCOTT BESSENT. HE TALKED ABOUT THE IDEA OF DETOX AND HOW MAGA DOES NOT STAND FOR MAKE M & A GREAT AGAIN. IF YOU TAKE THEM AT FACE VALUE, THE WHITE HOUSE SEEMS TO BE POINTING A LITTLE MORE TOWARDS THE LONG GAME AND TRYING TO IGNORE SOME OF THE SHORT-TERM MARKET MOVES. THESE MARKET MOVES ARE SIGNIFICANT. NOT JUST THE 3% DROP TODAY, BUT GO BACK TO ABOUT FEBRUARY 21, THE IDEA HERE THAT THIS IS A MARKET THAT’S BEEN ON THE BACK FOOT CENTS, DOWN 10% ON THE NASDAQ, 6% ON THE S & P SINCE THEN. KAILEY: WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INDIVIDUAL STOCKS, TESLA DOWN 15% ON THE DAY. I CAN’T IMAGINE ELON MUSK IS THRILLED ABOUT THAT AS HIS FOCUS SEEMS TO BE ON THE DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY. ROMAINE: 54% SINCE THE ALL-TIME HIGH ON TESLA BACK IN MID-DECEMBER. MORE IMPORTANT, WE GET THE IDEA THAT THE FOLKS IN TRUMP’S INNER CIRCLE, THE BILLIONAIRES, THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE BENEFITING FROM ALL THIS. IN THE SHORT TERM THEY ARE GETTING KILLED. ELON MUSK ALONE, HIS NET WORTH HAS DROPPED BY ABOUT $148 BILLION. BASICALLY GOING BACK TO JANUARY 17. THE LAST TRADING DAY BEFORE THE INAUGURATION. THAT WAS ON THE UPSWING. DON’T CRY FOR HIM YET. HE IS STILL WORTH A LOT OF MONEY. THERE IS THE IDEA THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE GETTING HURT. EVERYBODY IS FEELING THE PAIN. HOW MUCH LONGER IS THE WHITE HOUSE WILLING TO LET THIS CONTINUE? IS THERE TRULY A LONG ECONOMIC PLAN IN THIS THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD BE LOOKING TO? KAILEY: ARE THEY STILL GOING TO CONSIDER TARIFFS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WORD IN THE DICTIONARY? ROMAINE BOSTICK, THANK YOU. AS MARKETS ARE BRACING, CANADA IS BRACING FOR HIGHER TARIFFS. A CHALLENGER MARK CARNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF THE BANK OF CANADA AND ENGLAND, HE SET TO TAKE OVER AS THE PRIME MINISTER. DURING HIS VICTORY SPEECH YESTERDAY HE HAD THIS SHARP MESSAGE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP ON TRADE. > > THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT HAS RIGHTLY RETALIATED AND ISRAELI RETALIATING WITH OUR OWN TARIFFS THAT WILL HAVE MAXIMUM IMPACT IN THE UNITED STATES AND MINIMUM IMPACT HERE IN CANADA. MY GOVERNMENT WILL KEEP OUR TARIFFS ON UNTIL THE AMERICANS SHOW US RESPECT. KAILEY: WE DID SEE FURTHER RETALIATION TODAY WITH ONTARIO PREMIER DOUG FORD ORDERING A 25% SURCHARGE ON ELECTRICITY EXPORTS TO THREE U.S. STATES. HE’S JOINING US NOW FOR MORE ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. YOU HAVE SUGGESTED THE SURCHARGE COULD BE HIKED OR POTENTIALLY ELECTRICITY EXPORTS TO THE U.S. COULD BE CUT OFF ENTIRELY IF THERE’S ESCALATION FROM THE ADMINISTRATION. WHAT ESCALATION WOULD PRECIPITATE THAT RESPONSE FROM YOU? PREM. FORD: THANKS MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. I START WITH EVERY INTERVIEW SAYING WE LOVE AMERICANS. WE LOVE THE U.S. CANADIANS LOVE AMERICANS. I SPENT 20 YEARS OF MY LIFE IN CHICAGO AND NEW JERSEY. SAYING THIS, THIS IS ONE PERSON. IT IS NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. IT IS NOT EVEN REPUBLICANS, GOVERNORS, SENATORS, CONGRESSWOMEN AND MEN. IT IS PRESIDENT TRUMP. HE HAS CREATED THIS CHAOS, NOT JUST HERE IN CANADA AND THE U.S. AND MEXICO BUT AROUND THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. HE RAN ON A MANDATE TO LOWER INFLATION, CREATE MORE JOBS, AND IT’S DONE THE TOTAL OPPOSITE. INFLATION IS GOING UP. ASSEMBLY PLANTS WILL CLOSE IF HE CONTINUES WITH THE TARIFFS IN THE AUTO SECTOR. MANUFACTURING WILL GO DOWN. PEOPLE HAVE LESS MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS. I BELIEVE IN THE FORTRESS. LET’S CREATE AN AMERICAN-CANADIAN FORTRESS AND HAVE THE STRONGEST, WEALTHIEST, MOST PROSPEROUS COUNTRIES IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE IN. JOE: HAVE YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR RETALIATION WITH INCOMING PRIME MINISTER CARNEY? ARE YOU ON THE SAME PAGE ON THIS? PREM. FORD: I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH HIM A MINUTE AGO. PRIME MINISTER ELECT CARNEY, EXTREMELY BRIGHT INDIVIDUAL WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCES AND OTHER AREAS OF BUSINESS. I WILL BE SITTING DOWN WITH HIM THIS WEEK AND HAVING A CONVERSATION. HE’S RIGHT IN LINE WITH WHAT I BELIEVE IN, ACROSS THE COUNTRY PATRIOTISM IS RUNNING WILD LIKE WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. IT IS NOT AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. IT IS ONE PERSON. I CALL IT THE SELF-INFLICTED POTENTIAL RECESSION. THERE IS ONE PERSON THAT WILL PUT US IN A RECESSION. THAT IS PRESIDENT TRUMP. KAILEY: YOU HAVE SPOKEN WITH THE INCOMING PRIME MINISTER. HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH THE PRESIDENT OR ANYONE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION SINCE PUTTING INTO PLACE THIS SURCHARGE TODAY? PREM. FORD: I HAVE NOT. I SPOKE TO THE SECRETARY LUTNICK, ANOTHER BRIGHT INDIVIDUAL WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCES. AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, HE’S IN A TRULY BRIGHT BUSINESSPERSON. IF THEY CAN’T SEE THIS WHEN THE MARKET SPEAKS — I SAY WHEN THE MARKET SPEAKS, YOU HAVE TO LISTEN. THE MARKET IS SPEAKING. CEOS ARE SPEAKING. PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING OUT. WHY IS HE DOING THIS TO HIS LARGEST CUSTOMER IN THE WORLD, CANADA? NO ONE BUYS MORE PRODUCTS OF THE U.S. AND CANADA DOES, INCLUDING AUTOS. 400% MORE THAN MEXICO. 200% MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD. WE BUY AS MANY CARS AS WE SHUT DOWN THEIR. — THERE. THEY ARE 50% AMERICAN MADE PARTS. YOU CAN’T UNSCRAMBLE AN EGG THAT’S BEEN AROUND SINCE THE 1960’S, THE AUTO PACK. WE HAVE TO MAKE A LARGER OMELETTE. JOE: YOU ARE EXPORT TARIFFING ELECTRICITY. YOUR CALLING FOR TARIFFING CRUDE. WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO PREMIER SMITH OF ALBERTA WHO IS OPPOSED TO THE IDEA? PREM. FORD: THAT IS UP TO PREMIER SMITH. I HAVE NO JURISDICTION IN ALBERTA. THAT WILL BE UP TO PREMIER SMITH. AMERICANS AFTER MEMBER, — PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD REMEMBER ALBERTA SHIPS 4.3 MILLION BARRELS A DAY DOWN TO THE U.S. THERE IS NOTHING MORE THAN I WANT — THAT I WANT TO DO THEN SEND MORE ENERGY AND MINERALS. I DON’T BELIEVE IN PROTECTIONISM WITH YOUR TWO CLOSEST FRIENDS AND ALLIES IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. WE ARE GOING BACK AND FORTH ON EACH OTHER. CHINA IS RAMPING UP EVERY SINGLE DAY IN THE CRITICAL MINERALS AND HAVE CUT THE U.S. OFF FOR CRITICAL MINERALS FOR THE MILITARY. WE HAVEN’T. ONTARIO HAS MORE CRITICAL MINERALS AND ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. I WANT TO GIVE IT TO HER CLOSEST FRIENDS AND ALLIES, THE U.S. KAILEY: WHEN WE ARE CONSIDERING WHAT COMMODITIES ONTARIO HAS YOU THREATENED TO CUT OFF THE SUPPLY OF NICKEL FROM MINES IN ONTARIO. IS THAT A REAL THREAT? WHAT WOULD MAKE YOU ACT ON THAT? WHAT ACTION FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WOULD SEE THAT RESPONSE? PREM. FORD: 50% OF THE HIGH-GRADE NICKEL — I EMPHASIZE HIGH-GRADE NICKEL IN THE U.S. FOR THE MILITARY AND AEROSPACE AND MANUFACTURING COMES FROM ONTARIO. AGAIN, I WANT TO SEND MORE NICKEL, MORE HIGH-GRADE NICKEL, MORE LITHIUM, MORE COBALT. WE HAVE 33 OF THE MOST CRITICAL MINERALS THE WORLD WANTS. I WANT TO JUST GIVE THEM TO ANYONE. I WANT TO GET THEM TO HER CLOSEST FRIENDS AND ALLIES. I WANT TO CREATE THE AM-CAN FORTRESS. JOE: I WONDER WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP’S MOTIVATIONS. WHAT IS HIS OBSESSION, IF I CAN USE THAT WORD WITH CANADA? MUCH MORE FENTANYL BY MANY THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF YEAR IS GOING TO MEXICO. HAVE YOU HEARD THAT MESSAGE FROM THIS WHITE HOUSE? WHAT IT IS CANADA CAN DO TO BRING THESE TARIFFS DOWN? PREM. FORD: YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE, JOE. WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAID TIGHTEN UP THE BORDER, WE ACTED IMMEDIATELY TO TIGHTEN UP THE BORDER. I HAVE THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND CANADIAN BORDER PATROL, FEDERAL AND STATE POLICE. WE ARE DOING THAT. OVER 10,000 PERSONNEL ALONG OUR BORDER. IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. I A DRUGS. I CAN’T STAND WHEN GRANDMA FENTANYL COMING IN. WHERE THE PRECURSORS COMING FROM? CHINA. THEY GAVE ME A REPORT THAT HUNDREDS OF KILOS OF COCAINE ARE COMING FROM THE SOUTHERN BORDER THAT WERE CAUGHT IN THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS. ILLEGAL GUNS. ILLEGALS. OPIOIDS. FENTANYL. WE HAVE A SHARED BORDER. I KNOW OUR CANADIAN AND AMERICAN BORDER PATROL FOLKS WORK TOGETHER. OUR POLICE WORK TOGETHER. WE ARE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP THE FLOW OF DRUGS AND ILLEGALS AND GUNS COMING BACK AND FORTH ACROSS THE BORDER. IT HAS DROPPED DRASTICALLY HERE IN CANADA. KAILEY: PRESIDENT TRUMP CONTENDS IT IS NOT JUST AN ISSUE WITH WHAT IS FLOWING OVER THE BORDER. IT’S ABOUT MAKING SURE TRADE BETWEEN THE U.S. AND CANADA IS MORE FAIR, HENCE THE THREAT OF RECIPROCAL TARIFFS ON THINGS LIKE LUMBAR AND DAIRY. SHOULD CANADA LOWER RATES SO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A RECIPROCAL TARIFFS? –TARIFF? PREM. FORD: YOU TAKE THE OIL OFF THE BALANCE SHEET. THE U.S. NEEDS IT. THE U.S. HAS A $56 MILLION SURPLUS OF MANUFACTURING AND SERVICES WITH CANADA. THEY HAVE A SURPLUS OF $56 BILLION. THAT’S FINE. LET’S GROW THE PIE. GROW THE OMELETTE. MAKE IT LARGER. AS OUR FOES, CHINA, IS DECLARING AN ECONOMIC WAR. THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THAT QUIETLY FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS WHILE EVERYONE HAS BEEN SLEEPING. THEY ARE SITTING BACK LAUGHING AT THE TWO GREATEST ALLIES DUKING IT OUT BACK AND FORTH. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE. LET’S UNITE. WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL. WE NEED TO STAND UNITED TOGETHER. JOE: TAKE YOU FOR JOINING US. DOUG FORD, ONTARIO’S PREMIER, GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US ON “BALANCE OF POWER.” MARK CARNEY IS THE FORMER CHAIR OF BLOOMBERG’S BOARD OF DIRECTORS. HOUSE REPUBLICANS SUBMIT A BILL TO AVOID A SHUT DOWN THIS WEEK. WE WILL HEAR FROM TIM WALBERG OF MICHIGAN NEXT ON “BALANCE OF POWER” ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. > > I THINK WE WILL SEE LITTLE DISSENT. THERE IS NO APPETITE AND THERE SHOULD NEVER BE AN APPETITE TO SHUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOWN. THEY COST MORE MONEY TO REOPEN. IT HURTS PEOPLE. IT PUTS THE NATION AT RISK. I SINCERELY BELIEVE WE WILL PASS THIS CR AND THE SENATE WILL TAKE IT UP AND PASS IT AS WELL. KAILEY: REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN CHUCK FLEISCHMANN OF TENNESSEE ON THE EARLY EDITION OF “BALANCE OF POWER,” EXPRESSING CONFIDENCE ABOUT AVERTING THE SHUT DOWN AFTER A DRAFT FUNDING BILL THIS WEEKEND. JOINING US WITH THE LATEST IS MEGAN SCULLY WHO LEADS THE COVERAGE OF CAPITOL HILL. IT IS NOT EXACTLY A CLEAN CONTINUING RESOLUTION. THERE ARE SOME COMPONENTS THAT DEMOCRATS ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VOTE COUNT. YOU WILL AT LEAST NEED DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE. MEGAN: ABSOLUTELY. IT’S LOOKING LIKE DEMOCRATS ARE HOLDING STRONG IN THE HOUSE. WE WILL NOT KNOW UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY CAST THE VOTES. REPUBLICANS HAVE PROBABLY TWO VOTES TO SPARE. WE KNOW TOMAS HE IS A NO — TOM MASSEY IS A NO. HE USUALLY STANDS BY HIS NO. OTHERS CAN BE PERSUADED OTHERWISE IN THE RUN-UP TO A VOTE WHEN THE PRESIDENT GIVES HIM A CALL WALKING INTO THE CHAMBER. THAT LEAVES THEM ONE. IS THERE THAT ONE OUT THERE TO VOTE DOWN THIS BILL? IT IS LOOKING PROBABLY NOT. DEFINITELY NO ONE IS EMERGING AS THE LIKELY ONE. IF IT DOES PASS, WE LOOK TO THE SENATE AND THEY WILL NEED SEVEN, MAYBE EIGHT. RAND PAUL IS A NO THERE TO OVERCOME THE FILIBUSTER WHICH WOULD BE EXPECTED. JOHN FETTERMAN WOULD BE A DEMOCRAT FROM PENNSYLVANIA. WHERE ARE THE OTHERS? THERE REALLY ISN’T AN APPETITE IN EITHER PARTY FOR A SHUT DOWN, BUT THE BILL DOES NOT DO THE THINGS DEMOCRATS WANTED TO DO. NAMELY HOLDING DOGE TO ACCOUNT AND PUTTING CONSTRAINTS ON ELON MUSK. IT DOES NOT DO THAT. JOE: IS IT A DIFFERENT REALITY FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE KNOWING THAT IS THE VOTE THAT WOULD PROMPT THE SHUT DOWN? YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH A LOT IN THE HOUSE BUT IF JOHN THUNE NEEDS EIGHT DEMOCRATS, CAN HE FIND? MEGAN: SUSAN COLLINS DOES THIS ALL THE TIME. I VOTED FOR THE PROCEDURE SO I VOTED TO END THE FILIBUSTER, BUT I VOTED AGAINST THE LEGISLATION. JOE: I VOTED FOR IT BEFORE I VOTED AGAINST IT. MEGAN: A LITTLE TAP DANCING THAT THEY LIKE TO DO. THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND THE VOTES THERE. IF THEY DON’T, WHAT WE ANTICIPATE IS A VERY SHORT-TERM CR. SOMETHING IN THE ORDER OF A WEEK OR TWO AND THEY TRY TO HASH OUT SOME KIND OF A COMPROMISE. JOE: THIS WILL BE INTERESTING TO FIGURE OUT TOGETHER WITH THE HELP OF BLOOMBERG’S MEGAN SCULLY. WE TURN TO CAPITOL HILL TO TALK WITH SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS, REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN TIM WALBERG OF MICHIGAN IS DOING US. GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. THE COUNTDOWN CLOCKS ARE NOT ON TV’S. NOBODY SEEMS TO THINK WE ARE GOING TO SHUT DOWN. DO WE RUN THE RISK OF SLEEPWALKING INTO A SHUT DOWN ON FRIDAY? REP. WALBERG: I HOPE NOT. I DON’T THINK WE NEED TO. YOU JUST HAVE TO GO BACK TO DECEMBER WITH THE CR WE ARE PRESENTLY UNDER. ALL THE DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE VOTED FOR IT. WE HAVE CHANGED NOTHING TO SPEAK OF OTHER THAN MOVING SOME COMMUNITY PROJECTS THAT WE DON’T WANT TO FUND TWICE AND TAKING SOME OF THOSE DOLLARS AND PUTTING THEM TOWARDS THINGS I WOULD HOPE THE DEMOCRATS WOULD WANT TO SUPPORT. EVEN THOUGH HAKEEM JEFFRIES TOLD HIM THIS PAST FRIDAY TO VOTE AGAINST THE BILL. THEY WERE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF MAKING SURE BUREAUCRATS WERE NOT LAID OFF. NOW THEY ARE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING EVEN MORE STRONGLY COMMITTED TO HURTING NOT ONLY THE BUREAUCRATS BUT SOCIAL SECURITY RECIPIENTS, MEDICARE AND MEDICAID RECIPIENTS AS WELL. I THINK WE WILL PASS IT. BECAUSE IT IS WHAT IS NEEDED. IT IS A TRUE, CLEAN CR WITH A FEW REVISIONS IN IT USING PRESENT DOLLARS. IT DOES WHAT IS NECESSARY TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN, KEEP MEDICARE RECIPIENTS RECEIVING WHAT THEY NEED, SOCIAL SECURITY RECIPIENTS AND MEDICAID RECIPIENTS, AND BY THE WAY, IT ALSO GIVES THE LARGEST PAY INCREASE TO JUNIOR LISTED MILITARY IN 40 YEARS. I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS NECESSARY. HI BELIEVE ULTIMATELY WE WILL GET THIS OUT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GO TO A BIGGER ISSUE, RECONCILIATION FOR THE TAX CUT. KAILEY: QUICKLY FOLLOWING UP ON YOUR POINT ABOUT DEMOCRATS, THEY ARGUE THEY WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE MEASURE LIKE THIS IF IT HAD CONSTRAINTS ON THE ABILITY OF THOSE IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, PRESIDENT TRUMP AND ELON MUSK, TO DECIDE HOW THE APPROPRIATED MONEY IS ACTUALLY APPROPRIATED. WITHOUT THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE IN THE BILL, CAN YOU GUARANTEE THEY WILL SPEND IT AS CONGRESS HAS OUTLINED? REP. WALBERG: I NEED TO ASK A QUESTION FIRST. THE DEMOCRATS ALLOWED US TO WITHHOLD OUR VOTES UNTIL BIDEN ASSURED US HE WOULD NOT SPEND IT THE WAY WE DID NOT WANT HIM TO SPEND IT. THAT IS RIDICULOUS. THEY KNOW IT IS. IT IS A FALSE ARGUMENT. WHAT GOES ON IN THE WHITE HOUSE WILL BE CONTROLLED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A SHRINKING VIOLET. WHEN HE WANTS TO SPEND SOMETHING THAT IS APPROPRIATED FOR HIM, HE WILL DO IT. JOE: WE NOTICED THAT. WE SHOULD LET VIEWERS KNOW YOU CHAIR THE HOUSE EDUCATION COMMITTEE. THE PRESIDENT HAS MADE NO SECRET ABOUT HIS DESIRE TO SUNSET THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. IF HE ACHIEVES THAT GOAL, WITH OR WITHOUT THE HELP OF CONGRESS, WILL YOU AND THE SPEAKER SUNSET THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE? REP. WALBERG: THAT TAKES VOTES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE CAPITOL. I DON’T THINK THERE ARE 60 VOTES TO ABOLISH THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. THE PRESIDENT AND MY COMMITTEE AND OUR WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE CAN DO SIGNIFICANT THINGS TO RIGHT SIZE AND EMPOWER CERTAIN PARTS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO FORCE THE BUREAUCRATS OVER THERE TO GET THINGS DONE THAT REALLY SPEAKS TO QUALITY EDUCATION. THAT IS WHAT WE WILL BE COMMITTED TO WITH THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION LINDA MCMAHON. WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION. SHE KNOWS WHAT A KO MEANS. WE MAY HAVE TO DO SOME OF THAT. IT COMES AS A RESULT OF CONGRESS THAT PUT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION IN PLACE BACK IN 1979. IF ARE GOING TO ABOLISH IT, IT WILL COME FOR CONGRESS. I WILL DO WHAT I CAN TO MAKE SURE STATES HAVE MORE CONTROL. YOU GET BACK TO THE NUB OF IT, OUR CONCERN IS WITH THE STUDENTS, THE PARENTS, AND THE TEACHERS. WE GET THOSE THREE THINGS WORKING RIGHT, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IS IN PLACE AS FAR AS THE DEPARTMENT OR WHAT LAWS ARE IN PLACE, WE GET THOSE THINGS, THE STUDENT, THE PARENT, AND THE EDUCATOR, WE WILL DO JUST FINE. KAILEY: SOMETHING THAT DID NOT DO JUST FINE TODAY IS THE EQUITY MARKET. BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, WE GOT A STATEMENT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE TALKING ABOUT A DIVERSIONS BETWEEN THE ANIMAL SPIRITS AND THE STOCK MARKET AND WHAT IS IN STORE FOR THE ECONOMY IN THE MEDIAN TO LONG-TERM. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL YOUR CONSTITUENTS LOOKING AT THEIR PORTFOLIO TODAY OR WORRIED ABOUT KEEPING THEIR JOB ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE TO ENDURE IN THE NEAR-TERM FOR THE SAKE OF THAT MEDIUM TO LONG-TERM? REP. WALBERG: FIRST I WOULD SAY HANG ON A BIT. TAKE A DEEP BREATH. THIS PRESIDENT HAS BEEN KNOWN TO SUCCEED. HIS LAST TERM WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL. RIGHT NOW HE HAS TOLD THE PEOPLE EXACTLY WHAT MADE 77 MILLION PEOPLE VOTE FOR HIM. THE LARGEST IN HISTORY. HE WOULD RESTRUCTURE GOVERNMENT. HE WAS RIGHT SIZE IT. HE WOULD REDUCE THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT AND GET CONTROL BACK TO THE PEOPLE. THAT IS AN AGGRESSIVE ACT. THEY WILL BE SOME UPHEAVAL THAT TAKES PLACE. — THERE WILL BE SOME UPHEAVAL THAT TAKES PLACE. IF THEY TAKE THAT DEEP BREATH AND NOT LISTEN TO DEMOCRATS TALKING GLOOM AND DOOM, PER MEMBER WE JUST CAME THROUGH WITH FOUR YEARS OF INFLATION THAT SHOULD NOT OF BEEN THERE EXCEPT FOR GOVERNMENT OVERSPENDING. WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING AROUND THE WORLD AND THE UNITED STATES, I THINK IN THE END I WOULD BET ON HIS SUCCESS OVER WITH THE PUNDITS ARE TALKING ABOUT. KAILEY: REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN TIM WALBERG OF MICHIGAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. AS I WAS ALLUDING TO, TEXT DOCS EXPERIENCED THE BIGGEST ONE-DAY PLUNGE SINCE 2022 WITH THE NASDAQ DROPPING A BUNCH TODAY. TESLA SUFFERING ITS WORST DAY SINCE 2020. JOINING US WITH ELITIST IS BLOOMBERG TECHNOLOGY REPORTER JACKIE DEVELOPS. INTERESTING TO SEE MOVES LIKE THIS ON A DAY WHEN TECH EXECUTIVES GO TO THE WHITE HOUSE TO MEET WITH THE PRESIDENT. JACKIE: THAT IS WHERE A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY IS ACTUALLY HANGING. WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO TARIFF POLICY, MANUFACTURING POLICY? THAT HAS BIG IMPLICATIONS FOR THE CHIPMAKERS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SAID HE WANTS TO BOOST. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER NAMES, THIS IS PARTIALLY RELATED TO THE BROADER ROUTE WE ARE SEEING IN THE MARKET. HE MENTIONED A COUPLE OF NAMES THAT HAVE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS GOING ON. TESLA AND NVIDIA, APPLE. APPLE’S SIRI DELAY AND NVIDIA’S CONCERNS ABOUT DEEPSEEK AND IF THE CHIP POLICY WILL DEBT SALES. AND THEN TESLA WITH ELON MUSK’S POLITICS PERHAPS DENTING SALES. THOSE GROWTH PROSPECTS ARE NO LONGER WHAT THEY WERE. JOE: YOU ARE LOOKING AT A LOT OF BROKEN CHARTS IN A MARKET THAT MIGHT NOT REBOUND QUICKLY. IF THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WAS DOING AWAY WITH ALL THE TARIFFS, THAT MIGHT MAKE A DENT. HOW TROUBLING ARE THE LOSSES IN TECH TO SEE A ROUND TRIP LIKE THIS? TESLA DOWN MORE THAN 50%. JACKIE: YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE FUNDAMENTALS. I THINK THERE ARE SIGNS THERE ARE WEAKNESSES UNDERLYING A LOT OF THE EXUBERANCE WE HAVE SEEN WITH SOME OF THE GROWTH NARRATIVE DRIVING THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN STOCKS. ALTHOUGH SEVEN WERE DOWN ON THE DAY, INCLUDING THOSE YOU MIGHT THINK ARE LESS PRONE TO BEING VULNERABLE TO MANUFACTURING OR PERHAPS THAT TRADE POLICY. META, THE SOFTWARE HEAVY NAMES. AS WE LOOK AT ORACLE TODAY, IT’S ALSO HAVING MASSIVE SWINGS AFTER A MISS IN THE THIRD FISCAL QUARTER RESULTS. UX WE SAW INVESTORS MORE EXCITED ABOUT ITS OUTLOOK. THEN YOU SAW TANK AGAIN AS MUCH AS 2% TO 3%. A LOT OF THIS WILL HAVE TO HANG ON WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS ABOUT DOMESTIC POLICY AS WELL. JOE: PRAY TO HEAVY AT THE TABLE. COMING UP, ALIX STEEL SITS DOWN WITH CHRIS WRIGHT IN HOUSTON. THIS IS BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. > > ARE YOU EXPECTING A RECESSION THIS YEAR? PRESIDENT TRUMP: I HATE TO PREDICT THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE IS A PERIOD OF TRANSITION. THERE ARE PERIODS. IT TAKES A LITTLE TIME. > > THEY WILL BE NO RECESSION IN AMERICA. IT WILL BE GLOBAL TARIFFS THAT WOULD COME DOWN. I WOULD NEVER BET ON RECESSION. NO CHANCE. > > ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT RECESSION? YOU HESITATED. PRESIDENT TRUMP: OF COURSE YOU HESITATE. WE WILL TAKE IN OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TARIFFS AND BECOME SO RICH, YOU WILL NOT KNOW WHERE TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY. I’M TELLING YOU. JOE: PRESIDENT TRUMP ON AIR FORCE ONE AFTER WE HEARD FROM HIM EARLIER ON FOX ON SUNDAY MORNING. COMMERCE SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK CONFIDENT ON THE SAME DAY THE U.S. ECONOMY WILL AVOID A RECESSION. PRESIDENT TRUMP NOT RULING ANYTHING OUT. JOINING US NOW IS TOM ORLIK AT BLOOMBERG ECONOMICS. GREAT TO SEE YOU. THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK TO TALK TO US. THIS IS A MARKET THAT WAS TAKING DONALD TRUMP MORE SERIOUSLY THAN HOWARD LUTNICK OVER THE WEEKEND. HOW ARE WE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT THE ARTWORK IN THE ADMINISTRATION IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BRING GROWTH? — THE R WORD. TOM: I THINK BEFORE THE INAUGURATION THERE WERE TWO POSSIBLE PATHS THE ADMINISTRATION COULD TAKE. THE MARKETS WERE BIDDING IT WOULD BE LIKE THE FIRST TERM. TAX CUTS, GOOD FOR THE MARKETS, REGULATION CUTS, GOOD FOR THE MARKETS. A BUNCH OF TALK ABOUT TARIFFS BUT REALLY NOT ENOUGH TO MOVE THE DIAL. THE SECOND POSSIBILITY, AND I THINK THAT IS THE WORLD WE HAVE REALIZED WE HAVE, IS THAT TRUMP WOULD ACTUALLY ATTEMPT TO DELIVER ON SOME OF THE SWEEPING REFORMS HE IDENTIFIED ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. HUGE TARIFF INCREASES, HUGE SPENDING CUTS. THEY MIGHT BE THE LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS, THE U.S. ECONOMY WITH A BIG TRADE DEFICIT AND RISING DEBT. WITH THE MARKET IS TELLING US TODAY IS BEFORE YOU GET THERE, THEY WILL BE SIGNIFICANT SHORT-TERM COSTS. KAILEY: WE KEEP HEARING THAT THIS IS A NEGOTIATING TACTIC. NOT ALL THESE TARIFFS WILL BE IMPLEMENT IT. EAST — AND LAMENTED — IMPLEMENTED. IS THIS NOT ALREADY IMPACTING DECISION-MAKING IN A WAY THAT WILL SHOW UP IN THE ECONOMY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THE LEVEES ACTUALLY GO INTO PLACE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD? TOM: THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION. WHEN IT COMES TO TARIFFS AS A NEGOTIATING TOOL, WHEN NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COUNTRIES AND SMALL COUNTRIES. LET’S THINK ABOUT COLUMBIA. COLUMBIA REFUSED TO ACCEPT FLIGHTS FROM THE UNITED STATES. TRUMP SAID 25% TARIFFS. COLUMBIA CAVED. NO TARIFFS WENT INTO PLACE. THAT IS WHAT TARIFFS CAN DO AS A NEGOTIATING TOOL. LET’S THINK ABOUT CHINA. CHINA IS NOW ALMOST AS BIG AS THE U.S. IN ECONOMIC TERMS. CHINA DOES NOT WANT TO BE PUSHED AROUND. TRUMP SAYS 20% TARIFFS AS A NEGOTIATING TOOL. WHAT IS PRESIDENT XI SITE? NOTHING — SAY? NOTHING. PRESIDENT XI KNOWS THIS WILL BE PAINFUL BUT IT WILL BE PAINFUL FOR THE U.S. PAINFUL FOR APPLE. COMPANIES LIKE NVIDIA. WE ARE SEEING THAT PAIN REFLECTED IN THAT 4% DROP IN THE NASDAQ TODAY. JOE: TOM, AT WHAT POINT DO WE START TAKING THE MARKETS MORE SERIOUSLY IN WASHINGTON? IS THIS JUST NOISE AND MARKETS OVERREACTING? THIS IS A PRESIDENT KNOWN TO UPSETS OVER WALL STREET. HE SAYS HE’S NOT PAYING ATTENTION RIGHT NOW. TOM: EVERYONE SAYS HE DOESN’T PAY ATTENTION TO THE MARKETS. EVERYONE REALLY PAYS ATTENTION TO THE MARKET. THE EXAMPLE I COME BACK TO IN MY MORE OPTIMISTIC MOMENTS IS THE VOLCKER SHOCK AT THE BEGINNING OF THE REAGAN ERA. REAGAN CAME IN. VOELKER REALIZED HE NEEDED SOMETHING BIG TO BRING INFLATION UNDER CONTROL. INTEREST RATES WERE JACKED UP. THAT WAS PAINFUL. THE U.S. SUFFERED SOARING ON EMPLOYMENT BUT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE LONG-TERM. THE REST OF REAGAN’S FIRST TERM AND ALL OF SECOND TERM AS A PERIOD OF GROWTH. THAT IS WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HOPES THEY WILL BE DELIVERING. THE MARKETS ARE SIGNALING TO THEM, WELL, WE MIGHT GET WHAT YOU WANT IN THE LONG-TERM BUT IN THE SHORT-TERM TERM THERE WILL BE A PRICE TO PAY. KAILEY: TOM, THANK YOU SO MUCH. EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON OUR COLLEAGUE ALIX STEEL HAD THE CHANCE TO SIT DOWN WITH A MEMBER OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, SECRETARY OF ENERGY CHRIS RIGHT — WRIGHT. ALIX: IT IS A TOUGH DAY ON THE MARKET. STOCKS WERE HIT HARD. BOYLE IS OFF TO PERCENT. S & P OFF TO PERCENT — 3%. WHAT DO YOU SAY? SEC. WRIGHT: THIS PRESIDENT IS A BUSINESSMAN. HE’S A NEGOTIATOR. IN HIS CAREER IN POLITICS AND BUSINESS. WHAT HAS BEEN THE END RESULT? IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A DEAL AND NEGOTIATIONS. TRUMP IS FIGHTING EVERY DAY TO MAKE CONDITIONS — BUSINESS CONDITIONS, COST-OF-LIVING CONDITIONS BETTER FOR AMERICANS. THAT IS THEIR TRAJECTORY WE ARE ON. YOU HAVE UNCERTAINTY ON THE ROAD. ALIX: HOW LONG THE PAIN LAST FOUR CAN BE REALLY TRICKY, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE TRY TO INVEST. SEC. WRIGHT: HE’S GOT TWO BIG GOALS ON TRADE. WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT IT BUT IT’S NOT BEEN TALKED ABUT ENOUGH. 100,000 OR MORE PREMATURE DEATHS OF MOSTLY YOUNG AMERICANS FROM FENTANYL. HE IS MASSIVELY MOTIVATED BY THAT. ANYONE TOUCHED BY A FRIEND OR FAMILY FRIEND THAT HAS SEEN A DEATH FROM FENTANYL, THIS IS HEARTBREAKING. HE’S TRYING TO WORK WITH OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE SOUTH AND NORTH TO GO AS FAR AS WE CAN TO SHUT DOWN THE TRAFFICKING OF FENTANYL. IT IS HARD TO GO TOO FAR IN THAT DIRECTION. THE OTHER THING PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO DO IS HAVE FREE TRADE BUT FAIR TRADE. WE HEARD HIM TALKING ABOUT RECIPROCAL TARIFFS. 200 FOR SAFETY — 250% TARIFFS TO EXPORT DAIRY PRODUCTS INTO CANADA. THAT IS A MAKE ANY SENSE. LET’S HAVE THE PARTIES COME TOGETHER AND TOGETHER WORK TO LOWER TARIFF BARRIERS AND HAVE RECIPROCAL TRADE SO IT IS FAIR TO BOTH SIDES. ALIX: LET’S UNPACK THAT. GOING FIRST TO THE TRADE BARRIER PART, WHEN YOU HAVE A TAX AND TARIFF ON CANADIAN IMPORTS OF OIL, ONE THAT ACTUALLY HURT CONSUMERS? YOU WILL HAVE REFINER MARGINS PLUMMET AND THEN YOU WILL HAVE HIGHER GASOLINE PRICES. EVERY ANALYST ON THE STREET IS SAYING THAT. SEC. WRIGHT: THEY MIGHT BE WRONG. ALIX: WHAT IF THERE RIGHT? — THEY ARE RIGHT? WE DON’T HAVE HEAVY OIL SO WE CANNOT REFINE IT HERE. SEC. WRIGHT: YES. IT IS GOOD FOR THE OIL TO COME INTO THE MARKET PLACE AND I SUSPECT THE MARKET WILL CONTINUE COMING INTO OUR MARKETPLACE. THERE IS UNCERTAINTIES AND THAT LEADS TO A LOSS OF CONFIDENCE. THAT LEADS TO FEAR. LIFE IS LONG. THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN IN 50 DAYS. WE’VE HAD FOUR ACTIONS ON LNG EXPORTS. WE ARE GETTING RID OF NONSENSE REGULATIONS ON HOME APPLIANCES TO MAKE THEM LOWER COST AND HIGHER PERFORMING. THERE IS SO MUCH POSITIVE GOING ON. YES, YOU ARE SEEING THE SAUSAGE MAKING UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL. WE WANT TO LOWER COST FOR AMERICANS AND EXPAND OPPORTUNITY FOR AMERICANS. I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU WILL SEE COMING. ALIX: WHAT IF THE SAUSAGE BECOMES HIGHER GASOLINE PRICES BECAUSE OF TARIFFS? SEC. WRIGHT: SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ELECTED AND INAUGURATED YOU HAVE SEEN A DECLINE IN OIL PRICES. A DECLINE IN GASOLINE PRICES. HE SAW A DECLINE FURTHER TO DATE. ALIX: THEY’RE DOWN ABOUT 17% SINCE THE PEAK IN JANUARY. ON THE FLIPSIDE, AND I’M A DRILLER, HOW DO I DRILL MORE? I DON’T WANT TO DRILL WHEN OIL IS $69. SEC. WRIGHT: PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS WORKED HARD TO LOWER THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS. WE HAD FOUR YEARS OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WITH SO MANY BARRIERS. YOU NEVER KNEW WHERE THE NEXT ONE WAS COMING. YOU CAN’T GET A PERMIT ON FEDERAL LAND. YOU CANNOT BUILD THE GATHERING LINE. AND CANNOT EXPORT YOUR NATURAL GAS. I DON’T TO DRILL A NOT SURE WHERE IT’S GOING TO GO. WE HAD THOSE THINGS THAT ARTIFICIALLY CHILLED INVESTMENT. BREAKEVEN PRICES GO HIGHER AND HIGHER. TRUMP’S LONGER-TERM AGENDA IS MAKE IT EASIER TO INVEST IN AMERICA. LOWER COST ON ELECTRICITY. MANUFACTURER IN THE UNITED STATES. YOU WILL SEE A LOWERING OF THE BREAKEVEN. A LOWERING IN THE THRESHOLD WHERE GET NO LONGER MAKES SENSE TO DRILL. ALIX: IF YOU HAVE TARIFFS ON ALUMINUM AND STEEL, THAT WILL RAISE BREAKEVEN PRICES FOR WELL DRILLING. SEC. WRIGHT: TWO MOTIVATIONS THERE. WE HAVE SEEN SO MUCH EXPORTING OF MANUFACTURING JOBS IN THE UNITED STATES OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS, MOSTLY TO ASIA. DRIVEN IN LARGE PART BY CHINA. HE HAS A GOAL, A GREAT GOAL TO RESHORE MANUFACTURING IN UNITED STATES. WE CAN MAKE HEAVY INDUSTRY AGAIN IN THIS COUNTRY. THERE IS A TRANSITION TIME FOR SURE. HE’S A NEGOTIATOR. HE’S A BUSINESSMAN. HE GOT ELECTED TO LOWER PRICES FOR AMERICAN CONSUMERS. YOU THINK HE WILL CHANGE HIS MIND AND SAY NO, I’M IN FAVOR OF HIGHER PRICES ON THE AMERICAN CONSUMER? THAT IS NOT WHERE THIS ADMINISTRATION IS GOING. ALIX: IT IS HOW LONG THE PAIN WILL LAST IS AT THE HEART OF THE QUESTION. I HAVE NOT MET THE CEO TODAY THAT TELLS ME THEY WILL DRILL MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE UNCERTAINTY. SEC. WRIGHT: UNCERTAINTY IS UNSETTLING. ALIX: YOU WERE A CEO OF AN OIL COMPANY. SEC. WRIGHT: YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT A LITTLE TIME. WE SAW THE RESULTS LAST NIGHT. TRUMP WAS IN FOUR YEARS IN THE FIRST OR. THERE WAS A LOT OF FEAR. WHAT HAPPENED? INFLATION AVERAGED LOW 2%. ENERGY PRICES CAME DOWN. WAGES GREW IN AMERICA, PARTICULARLY FOR BLUE-COLLAR WORKING-CLASS PEOPLE. IT IS THE SAME AGENDA. THE SAME AGENDA THIS TIME. ALIX: LET’S GO TO THE IRA. YOU ARE REVIEWING WHAT PARTS OF THE IRA WILL STAY. TAX CREDITS. EVERYONE LOVES THE TAX CREDITS. THEY LOVE THEM FROM HYDROGEN AND WIND AND SOLAR. WILL YOU KEEP THOSE? SEC. WRIGHT: EVERYBODY LOVES TO GET OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. WHETHER IT IS BUSINESS OR CONSUMERS. LOOK WHERE THAT HAS LED US. ALMOST A $2 TRILLION DEFICIT IN THE LAST YEAR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION. IN PEACE TIME WITH RELATIVELY LOW UNEMPLOYMENT. THAT IS UNSUSTAINABLE. IF YOU SHOVEL MONEY OUT THE DOOR, EVERYONE WILL GET A SUGAR HIGH BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY THE PIPER. THERE IS POLITICS. THE HOUSE AND SENATE WILL DECIDE WHAT FROM THE IRA BILL STAYS AND WHAT GOES. JOE: ALIX STEEL BRINGING US A GREAT CONVERSATION WITH THE NEW ENERGY SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT IN HOUSTON. COMING UP, A LOOK AT HOW THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS RESPONDING TO THE TARIFF FALLOUT AND ADMINISTRATION’S PLAN TO CUT SPENDING. YES, THE DOGE. OUR SIGNATURE PANEL WAS ON THE WAY NEXT ON THE MONDAY EDITION OF BALANCE OF POWER. RICK DAVIS AND JEANNE SHEEHAN ZAINO WILL BE WITH US ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. > > IT IS KIND OF BIZARRE. I KIND OF THINK THE — WE HAVE THIS ENORMOUS FEDERAL BUDGET DEFICIT. IT IS A $2 TRILLION DEFICIT. IT KEEPS GROWING. OUR INTEREST PAYMENTS ARE HIGHER THAN OUR DEFENSE DEPARTMENT BUDGET. THAT WAS THE REAL WAKE-UP CALL FOR ME. KAILEY: ELON MUSK ON FOXBUSINESS EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON TALKING ABOUT HIS CURRENT ROLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION. JOINING US FOR MORE ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO IS OUR SIGNATURE PANEL, RICK DAVIS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, ALONGSIDE JEANNE SHEEHAN ZAINO FROM THE CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF THE PRESIDENCY AND CONGRESS. WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. IN THE INTERVIEW ELON MUSK TOLD LARRY KUDLOW HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE U.S. POTENTIALLY GOING BANKRUPT. THAT ENTITLEMENTS NEED TO BE CUT. SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, WHICH IS SOMETHING A PRESIDENT HIMSELF HAS SAID SHOULD NOT BE TOUCHED. THIS IS AFTER LAST WEEK WITH DONALD TRUMP REPORTEDLY TELLING CABINET OFFICIALS IT IS UP TO THEM TO IMPLEMENT CUTS, NOT ELON MUSK. DO SENSED TROUBLE IN PARADISE HERE? JEANNE: I ABSOLUTELY DO. WE ARE HEARING MIXED MESSAGES OUT OF THIS ADMINISTRATION. IT WAS NOT LONG AGO THAT WE WERE CRITIQUING JOE BIDEN’S ADMINISTER RATION FOR MIXED MESSAGES. HERE IS DONALD TRUMP. YOU HAVE A CALMER SECRETARY ZINKE ABSOLUTELY NO RECESSION. THE PRESIDENT SAYING — YOU HAVE A COMMERCE SECRETARY ZINKE ABSOLUTELY NO RECESSION. YOU HAVE ELON MUSK TALKING ABOUT CUTTING ENTITLEMENTS. HE’S CORRECT ON THAT. YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO NOT ONLY HAS TAKEN IT OFF THE TABLE, BUT SAID I WANT TO GIVE MORE TAX CUTS. THE MESSAGING FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND WE TALK ABOUT DONALD TRUMP IS THIS GREAT COMMUNICATOR, AND HE IS IN SOME WAYS BUT THE MIXED MESSAGES ARE DOING A HUGE AND ENORMOUS HARM TO THEM POLITICALLY AND TO THE MARKETS AND THE ECONOMY. JOE: WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS, RICK? HOWARD LUTNICK TALKING GROWTH. DONALD TRUMP WILL NOT RULE ONE OUT. ELON MUSK JUST TALKED ABOUT KEEPING AMERICA FROM GOING BANKRUPT. WHICH ONE IS IT? RICK: WELL, I’M NOT A CAN SPHERE THE NEAREST — CONSPIRACY THEORIST. IS ELON MUSK A DEMOCRAT? WHO HAS DONE MORE DAMAGE TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SINCE THE INAUGURAL THAT ELON MUSK? HE HAS INFLAMED REPUBLICAN CONSTITUENCIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY OVER HIS CUTS AND THEIR PET PROJECTS. HE HAS ALIENATED REPUBLICANS ON THE HILL AGAINST THE ADMINISTRATION WHO ARE FRUSTRATED THEY HAVE NO SAY. HE HAS SINGLE-HANDEDLY DISRUPTED THE CABINET OF THE PRESIDENT WHERE THEY HAVE SHOUTING MATCHES AT THE CABINET MEETINGS. I ACTUALLY LIKE THE FACT HE’S TRYING TO CUT THE GROWTH OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THAT STRATEGY IS GREAT, BUT ALL THE OTHER THINGS JUST SEEM TO BE UNDERMINING THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION. NOT THAT THEY ARE ALL SPEAKING WITH UNIFIED VOICE. THEY’RE NOT. HE CERTAINLY STANDS OUT AS THE GRINDER IN CHIEF OF THIS ADMINISTER RATION. IF ANYONE IS POINTING TO A RECESSION, IT IS ELON MUSK. KAILEY: THEN HIS PERSONAL BUSINESSES, TESLA DOWN 15% TODAY, THE LOWEST SINCE OCTOBER. YOU HAD A STARSHIP BLOWUP LAST WEEK. YOU HAD A CYBERATTACK ACCORDING TO ELON MUSK OF X TODAY. LARRY KUDLOW ASKED HOW HARD IT IS TO RUN HIS BUSINESS IS WELL DOING THE DOGE WORK. DOES THIS BECOME UNSUSTAINABLE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RISK AND SO MANY AREAS, INCLUDING PERHAPS THE DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY? RICK: THAT’S A GOOD QUESTION. THE FACT THAT LARRY KUDLOW BROUGHT IT UP IN THE INTERVIEW, KUDOS TO HIM. WHAT EVERY INVESTOR IN TESLA AND STARLINK AND SPACEX WOULD BE ASKING. WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MAKE OUR COMPANIES AND INVESTMENTS SECURE WHEN THE MARKETS ARE OVERALL REALLY PRESSURED? I THINK IT IS A LEGITIMATE QUESTION. IT IS NOT OUTSIDE THE STRATEGY TO HAVE STARSHIPS BLOWING UP. THAT IS HOW THEY LEARN. THE REALITY IS, ALL THOSE BUSINESSES ARE STRESSED RIGHT NOW. NOT LEAST OF WHICH BECOMES OF THE MACRO ENVIRONMENT THAT HAS BEEN GREETED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BEING ALL OVER THE MAP ON THINGS LIKE TARIFFS AND THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF GROWTH YOU TALK ABOUT. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? WE ARE SEEING JOB LOSS. IMMIGRATION BY DEPORTING ALL THESE FOLKS. YOU ARE TAKING A CAP ON GROWTH. THE TRADE POLICIES ARE EXACERBATING THAT. IT IS VERY UNNERVING FOR REPUBLICANS ALL OVER TOWN TO SEE THIS CURRENT OUTCOME. JOE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO TESLA’S BRAND? THE STOCK IS DOWN 50% FROM ITS RECENT HIGH FOLLOWING THE ELECTION OF DONALD TRUMP, DOWN BY MORE THAN HALF. WE SAW PROTESTS OVER THE WEEKEND AT SOME TESLA DEALERSHIPS, IF I CAN CALL THEM THAT. YOU HAVE CELEBRITIES POSTING ON GETTING RID OF TESLA CARS. HOW MUCH OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH POLITICS? JEANNE: IT LOOKS LIKE MUCH OF IT. IN THESE SIX WEEKS WE HAVE LEARNED THAT WHILE ELON MUSK IS A BRILLIANT BUSINESSMAN AND REALLY, REALLY GOOD AT MAKING MONEY, HIS POLITICAL ACUMEN IS PROBABLY NOT ALL THAT IT’S CRACKED UP TO BE. DONALD TRUMP NEEDED HIM TO HELP HIM FIND HIS CAMPAIGN — FUND HIS CAMPAIGN. PUTTING HIM IN CHARGE AND UPFRONT IN TERMS OF THESE DOGE CUTS HAS BEEN SOMETHING OF A DISASTER. ONE OF THE VISIONS THAT WILL GO DOWN AFTER ALL OF THIS AND WILL STAY WITH US IS THE VISION OF HIM HOLDING UP THAT CHAINSAW. EVEN DONALD TRUMP IS SAYING NO MORE CHAINSAWS. WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT ANYMORE. IT IS BAD POLITICS. THAT IS WHAT RICK WAS TALKING ABOUT. IT IS BAD POLITICS FOR THE REPUBLICANS. BAD POLITICS FOR DONALD TRUMP. STEVE BANNON OF ALL PEOPLE HAS BEEN SCREAMING THIS FROM THE RAFTERS. HE’S RIGHT. EVEN IF YOU DON’T LIKE STEVE BANNON, HIS POLITICAL SENSE IS ACCURATE ON THIS ONE. KAILEY: IT STRIKES ME THAT WE JUST GOT A SECOND STATEMENT OUT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE ABOUT SOME OF THE MARKET ACTIVITY WE SAW TODAY. “PRESIDENT TRUMP DELIVERED HISTORIC JOB WAGE IN INVESTMENT GROWTH IN HIS FIRST TERM AND IS SET TO DO SO AGAIN IN THE SECOND TERM.” HI SURPRISE WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THE MAN HIMSELF — ARE YOU SURPRISED WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THE MAN HIMSELF? WHERE IS HE IN DEFENSE OF U.S. EXCEPTIONALISM AND EQUITY PRICES? JEANNE: IT IS STUNNING. HE’S TALKING ABOUT EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE NUMBERS AND ACCEPT THE REALITY. WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS DONALD TRUMP REALLY WANTS TO USE THIS TARIFF POLICY HE’S BEEN SO LONG COMMITTED TO. THE REALITY OF THE MARKET AND SO MUCH ELSE CONSUMER SENTIMENT, ALL THESE NUMBERS, IS TELLING HIM HE SHOULDN’T. I FEEL WE ARE WATCHING THE INSIDE OF DONALD TRUMP FIGHT WITH ITSELF. SHOULD I OR SHOULDN’T I? HE CONTINUES TO GO ON. I THINK AT SOME POINT HE WILL PULL THE PLUG ON IT BUT I THINK HE’S PROBABLY WRESTLING WITH THAT IN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS VERY MINUTE. HE DOESN’T WANT TO COME OUT AND TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE VERY LEAST. JOE: WHAT YOU MAKE OF THIS? SOMEBODY DECIDED WE NEEDED TO KICK OUT A STATEMENT AFTER THE MARKETS CLOSE. THIS IS A WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN WHO SAYS PRESIDENT TRUMP DELIVERED HISTORIC JOB WAGE AND INVESTMENT GROWTH IN HIS FIRST TERM AND IS SET TO DO SO AGAIN IN THE SECOND TERM. DO WE NOT NEED MORE THAN THAT? RICK: THAT REALLY DOESN’T ADDRESS ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK OR LAST WEEK WITH THE MARKETS. YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT THE LAST THING THE WHITE HOUSE SHOULD BE DOING IS TALKING ABOUT THE MARKETS. IT GOES UP, GOES DOWN, BACK AND FORTH. WE USED TO COMPLAIN ABOUT JOE BIDEN NOT TALKING ABOUT THE RECORD MARKET HE HAD. HE HAD GOOD NEWS TO TALK ABOUT AND WOULDN’T DO IT. I DON’T BLAME HIM FOR BEING A LITTLE BIT SKETCHY. HONESTLY, I PREFER THE WHITE HOUSE NOT TO GET INTO THE UPS AND DOWNS OF THE MARKETS. THAT IS NOT THE CASE. JOE: WE WILL KEEP TABS ON THIS. MAYBE SPEAK ABOUT IT TOMORROW. RICK AND JEANNE SHEEHAN ZAINO, THANK YOU FOR GETTING STARTED ON THIS MONEY. U.S. AND UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS ARE MEETING IN SAUDI ARABIA TO DISCUSS INITIAL CEASE FIRE AGREEMENTS WITH RUSSIA. WE WILL LOOK AT THOSE CONVERSATIONS NEXT ON “BALANCE OF POWER” ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. > > WE WANT TO DO ANYTHING WE CAN TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT GETTING SOMETHING DONE. NOBODY REALLY HAS THE CARDS. RUSSIA DOESN’T HAVE THE CARDS. YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DEAL. JOE: PRESIDENT TRUMP ON AIR FORCE ONE TALKING TO REPORTERS, ANNOUNCING HE HAD LARGELY LIFTED THE FREEZE ON U.S. INTELLIGENCE SHARING WITH UKRAINE. OFFICIALS ARE SET TO MEET IN SAUDI ARABIA TO DISCUSS THE TIMING AND SCOPE OF THE CEASE-FIRE WITH RUSSIA. MARCO RUBIO DECEPTIVE LEADERS TALK TOMORROW. KAILEY: ALONGSIDE MICHAEL WALTZ. WE WILL KEEP YOU APPRISED OF THAT. AND THE HOUSE COULD VOTE ON A CONTINUING RESOLUTION TO FUND THE GOVERNMENT PASS THIS WEEKEND. MORE ON THAT ON THE WASHINGTON EDITION NEWSLETTER. JOE: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON